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Good evening. Tonight we go after a fantastic story, the story that flying saucers from other

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worlds are visiting our planet just as we are exploring outer space with our own rocket

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satellites. Our guest is former Marine Air Corps Major Donald Keyhole who has the support

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of scores of prominent businessmen, military men and some scientists in this campaign to

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prove that flying saucers exist. If you're curious to know why Major Keyhole charges

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the United States Air Force is deliberately deluding us when it calls saucer stories

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the bunk. If you want to hear his own evidence the saucers are real and his reaction to the

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claim of two Americans who say they've spoken with men from Venus. We'll go after those

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stories in just a moment. My name is Mike Wallace. The cigarette is Parliament.

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The new high filtration filter Parliament presents

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the Mike Wallace interview. And now to our story. Major Donald Keyhole is the director of the

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National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena as head of this private group interested

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in flying saucers. He's repeatedly attacked the United States Air Force and others for

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claiming that flying saucers are apparently flights of fancy and not flights by Martians

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or men from a moon. Independent surveys show that millions of Americans do share his belief

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in the celestial saucers. Major Keyhole first of all let me ask you this. Most people in

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the United States, despite of the fact that I say that millions do believe you will agree

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that most people in the United States don't believe in flying saucers from outer space.

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They probably hold the view of columnist Bob Considine who wrote that flying saucers are

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products of for the most part quote prankter half wits cranks publicity hounds fanatics in

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general and school balls in quote. How do you feel about Mr. Considine's charge. Well I know where

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he got the story. He got it from Colonel Watson out at the air testing hotels in St. Indaton. In

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fact the Colonel even a little farther and he said behind every sighting was an idiot a crackpot

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religious fanatic that included a lot of high ranking Air Force pilots incidentally and many

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airline captains people who were qualified to see these things he was just following out in

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Air Force policies. Well now you're not suggesting that Bob Considine is in the pay of the Air Force

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he's an independent new man with a considerable reputation. I mean the Colonel no I have

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every respect for Bob Considine. In spite of the fact that he suggests that pranksters half wits

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and screwballs are responsible for the stories about flying thought. Well I wish I could show him

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at any time a list of about 800 witnesses some of the big names in aviation including up to the

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rank of Colonel in the Air Force. They're still flying and they're still carrying passengers they

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never been grounded. They're still guiding airliners in the radar man are night after night in bad

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weather. If the screwballs and incompetence why are they still on the job. Major Kehoe where do you

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think flying saucers are coming from. I don't know there is an indication that they could be

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using Mars as a base I don't mean they originate there but every time Mars has approached us in

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the last 10 years there's been a noticeable increase in and social society. That's been mentioned

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in the Canadian official project on the basis of that set up an observation station in Canada.

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You say the Canadian official project what do you mean by the official there was an official

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project called Project Magnet. They set up an observatory at Shirley Bay to try to track these

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things. What happened to the official project you say there was a project. Yes they ran for about

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a year and they had one sighting on a gravimeter which indicated that something very large objects

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had flown over there. They finally decided they were spending a little too much money on it I suppose.

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Well certainly they wouldn't have thought that they were spending too much money on it

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if they believed that that kind of phenomenon existed. A lot of people on the project are

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still working up there on their own time and certain government officials have still kept the

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lid on their reports in Canada just as they do down here. In other words you suggest that they

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come from Mars or from other planets other solar systems possibly throughout the universe.

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Is that correct. Yes and there are a lot of scientists who said the same thing.

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What is your theory as to the kind of people who fly these are the kind of beings who fly these

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saucers. Well that's speculation will they say recently they'd be just like the man next door

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the invaders from space and his reasons may be good. Most of the top scientists have said that

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the odds are that beings from other worlds would not be like us. Some of them would be.

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Dr. Harlow Shapley for instance said that there probably were at least 100 million inhabited

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planets in the universe and Menzel who doesn't believe in saucers at all says that he goes

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up higher even higher and among those by they must be by the law of averages a certain number of

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planets that would be like the earth and if evolution started at the same time why you

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might have the same type of being. What do you think are the intentions of these people for

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lack of a better name of these people who are in these flying saucers. Well there's been no evidence

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of any hostility during the last 10 years what we call the modern phase that's been sightings before

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then. There have been some accidents Air Force pilots chasing these things. Captain Mantell was

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killed chasing one in 48 and the two powers disappeared chasing one in 53 over like superior.

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But I think those were just accidents just accidents. Why don't they try to communicate

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with us. What's your theory about that. Well I'll follow some of the theories the Air Force people

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have said suggest they suggested to me back in 52 and 53 at which time we were cooperating.

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We had a lot of very good friends in the Air Force that time the policy was to give out

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information they were about to tell the people everything they had. And the theory was then

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that perhaps these beings were so much different from us that communication would be a very hard

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thing. They might not for instance have speech sounds like ours. That's one answer. Another thing

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they might not be able to exist in our atmosphere. We're going to land on the moon we'll have to

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wear spacesuits or else build air conditioned buildings up there air pressure. There could be

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lots of factors like that. Well do you think they're down here when we do see them to look at us.

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I think that it's probably a long range survey. A long range survey and yet no attempt as far as

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we know in any case of communication with us. There have been claims of communication but

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those most of those have been by individuals. The Air Force has not admitted that there's ever

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been one and I don't know our committee hasn't found any cases that we would accept as absolutely

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verified. All right now let's go at it from another point of view if I may the Air Force point of view.

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They agree undoubtedly objects have been seen in the sky. But the Air Force has said time and time

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again. This is a quote from Richard Horner assistant secretary of the Air Force for research and

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development. All but a small percentage of these reports of unidentified flying objects

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have been definitely attributed to natural phenomena that are neither mysterious nor dire.

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End quote weather balloons mirages ordinary sky phenomena like meteors airplanes themselves.

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What about that. I'll answer that but I'd like to make several points doing it in 1947 the Air

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Technical Intelligence Center at Dayton's top Air Force intelligence men and scientists under

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contract sent a secret document to the commanding general the Air Force saying that whatever these

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things were they were real. In 1948 A.T.I.C. the same group sent a top secret estimate

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to the commanding general. Point Bannonberg said these were interplanetary spaceships.

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In 1952 there was an intelligence analysis of the maneuvers of these things as seen by radar

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triangulation radar photographs photographs and in 53 the Central Intelligence Agency and the Air

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Force had a special panel of scientists meet at the Pentagon to tell them what to do. And after

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they got through this group said you don't have proof that these things exist not scientific proof

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but you have a very strong circumstantial case. We suggest your quadruple investigation set up

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special observation posts in the meantime release everything you've got the American people. Now

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you've got four documents there that they've been sitting on all this time and they have been spending

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a lot of money investigating flying saucers. If they don't exist why the money why did the

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intelligence teams rush out every time there's a sighting. Now then you have mentioned four

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documents that you claim exist. We've heard in the past that you have claimed that these

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documents existed. We've seen your literature in which you talk about the existence of those

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documents. So we spoke with the Air Technical Intelligence Center at the Pentagon earlier this

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week and this is what we were told officially by them. Three of the four documents Major Keyhole

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refers to simply do not exist. The fourth document does exist. You can have a copy of it Mr. Wallace

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and you can see that it doesn't say what Major Keyhole claims it says. We have a copy of it and I

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quote to you from the copy. The Air Force document says just this the panel recommends

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that the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip the UFOs of the special status

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they have been given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired. We suggest an

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integrated program designed to reassure the public of the total lack of evidence of inimical forces

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behind the phenomena. And again as I point out Secretary Horner says it simply ain't so. The

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point really at issue here would seem Major Keyhole is this. Why do you believe that the Air

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Force says that nothing is going on. Why do you believe that the it's a fairly serious charge.

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I know it you make the charge that the United States government is withholding from the people

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of the United States certain very important information. Why what would their motives be

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for withholding that kind of information across. Well I'll answer that but I would also like to

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show you some proof that they are withholding it. The reason that was given to me when they were

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working with me back in 52 and 53 was first that they were afraid of hysteria. Remember the Orson

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Wells show back way years back when he scared people in the hills with the idea of invading

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Martians. Then they were also afraid that it would upset organized religion. That was a smaller

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factor but there was some fear of it. Later they were afraid that these accidents when the interceptors

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had chased these things and had been lost or had crashed might be considered a proof of hostility.

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Now I would never have put my name on anything if it were a matter of personal opinion. I've talked

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to and read the reports of hundreds of pilots and radar men and guided missile trackers who've seen

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these things and some of them are very important names. The Air Force says they have this down to

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1.9 percent but you'll notice the word current in there. They mean we are currently explaining.

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I have in my possession a copy of special report 14 which is their Bible on this. In the back it

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has a table showing that 3201 cases they examined 19 and a half percent were unsolved and they admit

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they still are unsolved. You add up what they've had since then it makes over 12 percent of the

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reports and those are mostly from the best possible sources. Now wait just a second. I'll use your

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figures. The Department of Defense released an official bulletin on November 5th 1957 saying that

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from June of 55 to June of 57 a two year period just a fraction over 2 percent of all investigated

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unidentified flying objects had to be listed as unknown 2 percent. So that's your 1.9. What was

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the period again. 55 to 57. The rest would determine there have been balloons airplanes hoaxes and a

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category about 12 percent called insufficient information which means that the report was so

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flimsy that there was simply nothing to check on. I must confess that they have certainly shown me no

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classified material but they have opened their files quite willingly to us in our preparation

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for this program tonight and they've given us very convincing evidence Major Keyhole that it is

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largely I shouldn't say largely I'll say 99 and 44 100 percent a hoax. Now you mentioned a hoax.

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Well I'm calling on a good pilot's hoax. No no no not hoaxed it. I thank you for correcting me not

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just a hoax but let's say misinformation or sightings of objects which seem to be one thing

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but are in fact another. I'm glad that you corrected me about hoax because it doesn't by no means that

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much a hoax. But you mentioned a Dr. Donald Menzel who's a professor of astrophysics at Harvard

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before. I think you will agree that he's one of the world's most distinguished astrophysicists is

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that not so. I think there are others who are equally capable but he's not agree with him. He is one

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of the he is one of the world's most distinguished astrophysicists though I think we can't agree on

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that in any case. He stresses you see that pilots are not expert observers that they as well as

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others can see flying saucers when it's only to quote him the wrapper of somebody's lunch blowing

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around in the air and quote but again let's come back to the point the most important point

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Major Kehoe and that is why why will the Air Force why will the United States government

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withhold information from United States citizens for what reason because they're treating them

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like children the way they did with the H bomb at first and the way they were doing with they've

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been doing with other things now I'm not attacking the United States Air Force I'm attacking a small

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group in there that has been persistently keeping this from the public just as they've kept other

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things for a long time you couldn't even mention the idea that we could be hit by missiles from

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submarines from the Gulf and from both coasts very easily I knew that years and years ago and

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tried to get it out and at the time was discouraged about it you mentioned these did this denial of

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these documents now I'd like to tell you something that happened on the Armstrong Circle Theater

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I had requested that those points be in the script and I was discouraged from it at first by

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their writer then later some of our board of governors insisted that we have those points

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included so I said either I don't go on or we have those in there I said all right so the script

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was completely rewritten now those were in the script as it was first rehearsed but when the

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second rehearsal came along and the Air Force saw the Mimigra she's the Air Force representative

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according to the Armstrong writer said they would immediately deny it on the air even though it meant

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denouncing their own former project chief now the source for this is captain Edward Ruppel

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who was the head of project bluebook for two years and at that time he was considered good

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enough that he briefed president Truman on these things he was the top man rank didn't mean anything

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it's your experience accounted he says these things existed he put it in a book which was cleared

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by security and review in the Air Force on December 5th 1955 that was cleared it's in his book

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he's never been hauled in the court martial now I have here and if you allow your camera to come in

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on it this is a sheet from the script the Armstrong Theater which was deleted this was crossed off

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and I was told that I couldn't say it on the air now that was censorship by intimidation

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this can be matched up with the other sheets from the Armstrong Circle script and any typewriter

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expert will show you well I'm just I'm sorry they ordered it taken out I'm certain that people

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believe you the only thing is that the next morning I distinctly remember reading a report by you

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Major Keough to the effect that no censorship no pressure of any kind put on you I'm sorry

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Mr. Austin that I know that statement almost by heart yes I said that CBS and the Armstrong

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people were not to blame for cutting me off the air when I tried to mention the fact that a Senate

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committee was working on the secrecy angle I never mentioned this that night to anyone because I had

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promised that I wouldn't say anything about it on the air that the Armstrong people it was taken out

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and I will do this I will ask United States Air Force to have the Marine Corps put me on active duty

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for court Marshall if that is not the case. Major Keough I understand you have three new reports

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on file which in your opinion you have them currently on file and their new reports these in your

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opinion would convince every person in this country that flying saucers are a fact is that correct

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they should convince a lot of people because of the the names involved tell us about it.

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I told your interviewer in Washington that I couldn't mention the names because they were too high one

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of them is a top scientist in this country whose name would be known to everybody. Why wouldn't he

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want his because he's afraid of the official ridicule. He's afraid of official ridicule that's

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right more afraid of official ridicule than of possibly alerting the country to a serious national

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danger. She surprised how many people give us reports and they say please keep my name confidential

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I give you one report which came to us the name has to be left out in 1951 a UFO circled the fleet

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in Korean waters it circled at high speed and they launched several planes to try to get a close in

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on it they got a radar lock on that is the radar was guiding the planes toward the object this was

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picked up by radars on 14 naval vessels this object circled for a half an hour more and then it took

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off at the speed way over in excess of a thousand miles an hour this report was certified nine members

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of our board of governors saw it signed it and agreed that they had seen it and agreed to the

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contents yeah there is another report that just came in from four top missile designers or engineers

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at one of the big plants in this country they saw an elliptically shaped object in two small

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round shaped objects flying with it over California November 11th 1957 at a speed of at least 5,000

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miles an hour these men are well qualified to know what they see with broad daylight not a cloud in

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the sky there have been cases even where the Air Force has shot at these things if there's nothing

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there and they don't exist why do they shoot at them you mentioned Mr. Horner the day after Mr. Horner

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said that the Air Force was not concealing anything a captain Gregory Oldenburg a public

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information officer at Langley Field refused to let an ad be inserted in the Langley base

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flyer their newspaper which asked that anybody interested in UFOs please communicate and form

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a little group he said I must refuse to do this because it's the dissemination of information

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on UFOs is contrary to Air Force policy and Air Force regulation 200-2 and I have a copy of it

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here in case you want to see it well major keyhole I must say that the Air Force tells us

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they don't question your motives but they do question the accuracy of a good deal of your

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information and for that reason they say you have been and were they to in a sense throw open

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an invitation to all people who cite UFOs to get in touch with them once again they get all kinds

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of cranks hoaxers and so forth and you see they run down every one of these sightings and it has

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cost them a tremendous amount of money to no avail over the past few years that's what they told you

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that is what they told me in the past few years millions of flying saucer enthusiasts have become

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excited about the stories of two men George Adam Ski and Howard Manger both of them claim to have

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seen flying saucers Manger claims to have been given a ride in one by some creatures from Venus

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Adam Ski says he's chatted with a man from Venus in the California desert

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I'd like to get your reaction to those stories in just 60 seconds all right major about George

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Adam Ski and Howard Manger both men claimed to have talked with men from Venus Manger claims

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that he's even taken a ride on a flying saucer do you believe them no you think they are hoaxers

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we do not accept any reports of these so-called contactees without more evidence we've asked

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them to submit their claims and take a lie detector test we don't throw them out we simply say we'll

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give you a fair chance I think that's the least important part of the picture the most important

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part is the weight of evidence from hundreds of competent people I'd like to name a few

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Captain Richard K's American Airlines Captain C.S. Child's Eastern Airlines Captain T. Kravitz

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TWA Robert Addictus TWA Colonel Donald J. Blake's the U.S. Air Force a wing commander I could get

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down the list people who know what they're doing and they're still on duty they're still flying

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Major Kehoe what would you like to see done about flying saucers that is not currently being done

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what steps would you like to see Ted I think the American people should write to their congressman

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and insist that open hearings be held by the permanent committee on government operations

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which has been linking into this for six months an Air Force spokesman told us this last week he

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said members of the Senate subcommittee have talked with us already and they have shown no

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interest in conducting any hearings on this issue I talked with the chief investigator within the

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last two weeks I gave him a lot of information and I gave him data on one case where an airliner

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was sent to chase one of these things and the passengers kept an ignorance of it at that time

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that involves two government agencies beside the Air Force which is refused to release the report

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if the committee were to get Ruppelt major forna a several colonel's around that time major general

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garland who was on the project there would be a big revelation because the Air Force is simply

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feeding the American people like children they don't trust him with the facts you know here's an

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interesting I think an interesting question major the United States and Russia have started sending

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satellites into the sky and we may be hitting the moon with a rocket soon possibly Mars you believe

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that creatures from outer space have space stations on Mars what's going to happen when we start firing

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rockets at the moon or at Mars that question's already been brought up we expect to have a base

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on the moon within the next five years it's possible that there is a base on there I don't say

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there was any proof of it is it possible we're going to start an interplanetary war when we

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start sending our rockets to the moon and tomorrow in 1955 general Douglas McArthur said the next war

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would be an interplanetary war and we'd have to unite against people from other planets last question

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major keyhole have you ever seen a flying saucer I've seen them tracked on radar but I take the

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word of about 800 of the best witnesses in this country and abroad but you yourself have never

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seen a flying I've just been a reporter and a careful one thank you very much major Donald keyhole

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as you've just heard the flying saucer controversy is deadlocked in

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contradictory statements and interpretation of facts as for major Donald keyhole himself

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like most of us he's never seen a flying saucer which may just make him like a mystic who's never

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seen a ghost but one must give him credit he has much faith